Friday, March 11, 2011

Below the Belt Tales

Two "below the belt" renderings of the same tragic tale:


  1. And so, Necessity (Zeus) continues to alter his form and rape the collective mind of mankind, but in each rape one discovers a twin-fold birth, one of each twin a mortal, the other "divine".

    Helen of Troy & sister and wife of Agamemnon Clytmnestra.

    Castor & Pollux

  2. i can wink, can you? ;)

    One is love felt as a "necessity", as something outside of you, taking possession of you, driving you; the other, as coming from inside of you, a choice, a decision...

  3. ...Planning a post on this, drawing on Lycias Speech in Phaedrus. Let's see. :)

  4. Interesting... I look forward to reading it. :)

  5. btw - The wink-link isn't working :(

  6. Emile was raised to be filled w/amour d'soi and given a "charm" (Sophie) to ward off amour propre and survive "Paris".

  7. Rousseau's distinction is the "Red State" complaint. Self-reliance vs "other" dependence. Only the "latter" requires one to learn how to "manipulate" others.

    Mother's, don't swaddle your infants!

  8. Total self-reliance is impossible, and not desirable, in my opinion.

    Doesn't it take time (maybe a lifetime) to accept that what you seek in "the other" is in you (the Divine), or if you choose not to see it "in you", then seek it in God. (convoluted sentence)

    I think it's a necessary process.

    We become posessed by the other because they have something that we need to develop in ourselves.

  9. "Total". I agree, it's impossible. But to seek that what you desire within yourself before seeking it from others... is a "good" habit to develop.

  10. Sometimes it's difficult to know what you desire (in yourself) until you see it in others.

    I'd had a sense of it, but been unable to name it. Now I can recognize it and cultivate it in myself and TRY to get it from myself instead of others.

  11. 'Others' like everything else in the world are an "occasion"... do I make any sense to you?

  12. All things in moderation?
    Yes, that makes sense.

    Why do you ask if you make sense to me?

  13. Unless that's not what you meant. In which case, please explain. It's late and I've had a bad incident tonight, so my mind isn't clear.

  14. Why do you ask if you make sense to me?

    That was merely rhetorical. Like saying since i am not explaining myself fully... :)

    Moderation? no,no. Though, if moderation is what you believe in, then an occasion for moderation too. An occasion for the "self" more like... a playground. Everything is your playground, including others.

  15. But if i must commit myself, I would say: An occasion for a celebration of the "self" ... through what? Let me return to that in my post. :)

  16. No, scratch everything except the "occasion". I don't want to commit myself before time. (Not that it matters.) :)

  17. Occassion as in the "current lay of the vortex". Others are certainly opportunities for trial, error and revision, there's no doubt about that (as some people may date/marry many individuals over a lifetime).

    And amour d'soi is largely the result of your interactions with others, competetitive, cooperative, social and/or "other".

    Mentor creates situations in which Emile is allowed to compete with others, but must learn to use his head (a foretaste of the bellum omni contra omnes). But before that is given a lesson in "private property" in which he learns acceptable moral relations between people (the garden) - if someone has used/is using something, you can't just take it away from them and use it yourself (Marx's primitve accumulation). And then, to prevent his Emile from having his head turned by a pretty face, Mentor casts a protective "charm" over him. He must find a wife with some very specific and unique traits, none related to social position and/or wealth (sources of amour d'soi).

  18. The charm is a pre-conceived notion of "sophie" with which he can measure other women. Little does he know, Mentor has already selected (and educated) Sophie specifically for Emile.

  19. Everything is an occasion for a little practice, yes. But people won't do that unless they are forced to, like when they are hurting or "in love". They must be able to feel the "necessity". A "philosopher", however, does it all the time - what I was referring to in my first comment. Re Amour d'soi/amour propre.

  20. "I see", said the blind man.

    Zeus, (Necessity) is certainly a hard task-master. Aphrodite (Desire) is quite another. How they translate into amour d'soi/propre is another matter.

    Robinson Crusoe (Emile's single textbook) was certainly a creature of Necessity. There was no "amour propre" to be found on the island, except that given to Crusoe by his man, Friday.

    Of course, what became of Crusoe after his rescue remains a "mystery". Was he corrupted by society/civilization? Or would he choose as some in "Swiss Family Robinson" to remain in "primitive" (necessity-driven) circumstances?

    Of course, in the days before Rousseau, a man's amour propre was assigned to him, be he "prince", "duke" or "earl". It could be earned "Sir", but it was largely inheritted.

    So when Beethoven and Goethe meet the on-coming royal retinue, one steps aside, the other does not.

    The Enlightenment Aristocracy of "Merit" was questioned.

  21. Herr Doktor!

    As Freud once said,

    "America is a mistake, a giant mistake. "

    "America is the most grandiose experiment the world has seen, but, I am afraid, it is not going to be a success. "

    "Yes, America is gigantic, but a gigantic mistake."

    after all...

    "We believe that civilization has been created under the pressure of the exigencies of life at the cost of satisfaction of the instincts."

    And America greatest virtue is that it promotes no virtues. It's goal is "happiness" and "Happiness is no cultural value"

  22. Who assigns "worth"? Do you, or does the "other"?

    Only one person assign "self-worth". Whether they do so from "self-knowledge" or from "the praises/ flattery of others" depends upon their own unique experiences and characters.

  23. But irregardless, the two hemispheres of the brain "desire" concordance. Symmetry MUST be maintained. A deficit... leads to both conscious attention AND desire. Aphrodite, born of the foam.

  24. The lustful Amygdala. The disgustful Septal Nuclei. Which will push Saturn's limits, today?

  25. And yes, the philosopher is a butterfly. As the Sufi parable goes, "He who tastes, knows; he who tastes not, knows not."

  26. I would even redefine the "other" for my my purposes here. But... can I wait till my post...? :)

  27. Shall the taste be sweet and increase desire, or bitter and arouse disgust?

  28. Oh no no ... please no! It's just that it all touches on the subject, and I want to lace it together. You please go on...

  29. Sorry, but the fit has already passed. You'll have to come back later when the vapours have settled and the Pythia again mounts her tripod. ;)

  30. I guess it all retuns to Sartre and the below...

    What had struck me was his account of a boy looking through a keyhole, who was caught in the act, and then was forced to realize that in another person's mind, he was now a voyeur, and there was very little he could do to change this impression in the other person's mind. And so there was a chance that he would now accept the fact that he was a voyeur, and play this "role" throughout the rest of his life. In one brief but unintentional moment, he had metamorphosized from an observer to a voyeur, an object of someone elses thought. And how unfair this was.

    August 10, 2010 11:47 AM
    Joe Conservative said...
    It's also about the nature of "being for others" (hell), but also about the possibility of "posing" in the minds of others, creating an impression that one is different than what one is... demonstrating a concern for one's "reputation" vice "character".

    August 10, 2010 11:53 AM
    Joe Conservative said...
    ...and in all this, I was thinking about myself, and not anyone else, and how I often "pose" instead of "being" who I am.

  31. Fate v. Fortune. Passively suffer one or actively pursue the other, the choice is yours.

  32. One is love felt as a "necessity", as something outside of you, taking possession of you, driving you; the other, as coming from inside of you, a choice, a decision...

  33. Redeem -

    a : to buy back : repurchase b : to get or win back
    2: to free from what distresses or harms: as a : to free from captivity by payment of ransom b : to extricate from or help to overcome something detrimental c : to release from blame or debt : clear d : to free from the consequences of sin
    3: to change for the better : reform
    4: repair, restore
    5a : to free from a lien by payment of an amount secured thereby b (1) : to remove the obligation of by payment (2) : to exchange for something of value c : to make good : fulfill
    6a : to atone for : expiate b (1) : to offset the bad effect of (2) : to make worthwhile : retrieve

    "To Re-Assign the value of..."

    He who lives to fight another day, may yet one day "redeem" the events that transpired in the past. "Change the worth"

    also (perhaps related)

    Deme - a unit of local government in ancient attica.

    To stabilize the political affairs of Athens, Attica was subdivided into ten demes and citizens were re-assigned to one of the ten.

    Every ten years Congressional Districts are redrawn to incorporate census changes and re-apportion Congressional Representation in Congress, each District to represent ~600,000 citizen votes. The members of those districts are essentially re-demed.

    As Nietzsche would say, "a transvaluation of all values."

  34. Victory is unnecessary. Perseverance on the other hand, is the ultimate victory, as this represents the ONLY circumstance which makes "redemption" even possible...

    Very "Chinese".

  35. ...finally. I was mighty pissed off with myself. :)