Well, you're female for one (the "other half" of the human species).
That's probably the only 180 degree opposite. The rest of the areas in our lives and characters/personalities are probably merely a matter of degree's. ;)
...and out of curiosity, in what respect do you see me as your "opposite"? I'd like to think that we're not that different, but then the "generation" we elicit from one another speaks differently.
You're male. (Can I cop out like you? ;-) You seem to be able to detach much easier from situations, and approach them from a scholarly angle. More of an engineering approach to life.
Of course, it's difficult to know if this is accurate, considering my knowledge of you is limited.
We're probably not that different, once you strip away all the b.s.
I don't have the language you do, but the more I read, the more I realize that my thoughts are the same, I just don't know how to express them.
However, I do wonder who it is you are angry with, and why the need to deceive. You can philosophize away all you want, but when you justify hurting someone (even if it means an "education"), I wonder if your empathy is in tact.
Surely there's a happy medium between a Neitzchean and a Kantian?
oh pish. I came across as extremely critical, which I didn't mean to do.
You know, I observed something interesting. After Angel died, I couldn't bear to hear news of a child being hurt or abused. Learning about the loss of a child, and seeing parents in mourning just tore me up, whereas before I was very detached from those things.
At first I thought it was limited to situations involving babies or children, but it's grown into suffering of all kinds. I guess I was taught empathy through my own experience.
I lose any measure of objectivity in these situations. I guess that part of my brain is more active than the reasoning, sometimes. It even changed my politics, somewhat.
It's much more difficult to be black and white on most issues now.
Please, be critical. Tolerance often is a reflection of an absence of moral standards. And character is the result of imposing moral standards.
I suppose the difference lies in whether the great pains one experiences in their life is a tragic accident or someone deliberately F'ing with you. Mine was the "latter", so I gained an understanding and some self-empowerment in allowing myself the ability to reciprocate, even in small measures. In other words, I'm no longer as "universally tolerant" as I once was. Excessive tolerance, I've found, leads to subordination and enslavement by those who do not share the same moral values (ie - in the Kantian sense of using others as "means to ends"). Case in point - "Mikey" of the previous thread.
ps - I "still" can't stand to hear about children being abused. That trait is also reflected in my 2nd son's choice of career as a social worker aiding NY State child protective services.
I suppose the difference lies in whether the great pains one experiences in their life is a tragic accident or someone deliberately F'ing with you. ----------- Well, I think that both experiences were traumatic.
Excessive tolerance, I've found, leads to subordination and enslavement by those who do not share the same moral values (ie - in the Kantian sense of using others as "means to ends"). Case in point - "Mikey" of the previous thread. ------ I can see this, but there's a distinct difference in tolerating abuse from others, and going out of your way to abuse. My point in bringing up my increased sensitivity after she died was that I wanted to comfort those who had been hurt in a similar manner. It seems like you've gone the opposite route. You seem to want to inflict the same pain that was put upon you. Just out of curiosity, if you know intimately that horror of being f'd with, why does it bring you pleasure to do it to others?
Perhaps this is what gives me a greater ability to "suspend empathy". Perhaps this is simply a reflection of "maleness". --------- I think so. And I love maleness....it's just that mind bullets f'ing hurt.
ps - I "still" can't stand to hear about children being abused. That trait is also reflected in my 2nd son's choice of career as a social worker aiding NY State child protective services. -------- Bravo for your son! I simply cannot imagine the things he sees and hears. O for a tender heart and a strong foundation...
...in the sense of contributing and not detracting from the story?
----------- Eh. I didn't even realize it until I had done some research on the film. The movie was choppy in places and highly symbolic. I still don't (and probably never will) understand everything in it, but the longer their movies marinate, the better.
You seem to want to inflict the same pain that was put upon you. Just out of curiosity, if you know intimately that horror of being f'd with, why does it bring you pleasure to do it to others?
Because those whom I go out of my way to 'f with (like Mikey) are usually abusive and seeking to impose their will upon others, too. Tit for tat is my usual rule of thumb.
Might there be a different approach?
None as effective as the "torpedoes touch" (Plato, "Meno").
ps - I never had an appreciation for dance before my daughter became a dancer. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. ;)
We are now able to determine the composition of the perfect life. First, we admit the pure pleasures and the pure sciences; secondly, the impure sciences, but not the impure pleasures. We have next to discover what element of goodness is contained in this mixture. There are three criteria of goodness—beauty, symmetry, truth. These are clearly more akin to reason than to pleasure, and will enable us to fix the places of both of them in the scale of good. First in the scale is measure; the second place is assigned to symmetry; the third, to reason and wisdom; the fourth, to knowledge and true opinion; the fifth, to pure pleasures; and here the Muse says 'Enough.'
I love this video.
ReplyDeleteI have a question for you. You talk a lot about generation from opposites. In what way do you think I'm opposite from you?
Well, you're female for one (the "other half" of the human species).
ReplyDeleteThat's probably the only 180 degree opposite. The rest of the areas in our lives and characters/personalities are probably merely a matter of degree's. ;)
...and I really like the dance. They kinda look like a pair of dna strands....
ReplyDelete:-)
ReplyDeleteI saw a movie that you might like.
A Serious Man by the Coen brothers.
There is always SO much more to their movies than you see at first glance.
I'll have to keep an eye out for it...
ReplyDelete...and out of curiosity, in what respect do you see me as your "opposite"? I'd like to think that we're not that different, but then the "generation" we elicit from one another speaks differently.
ReplyDeleteYou're male. (Can I cop out like you? ;-)
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be able to detach much easier from situations, and approach them from a scholarly angle. More of an engineering approach to life.
Of course, it's difficult to know if this is accurate, considering my knowledge of you is limited.
We're probably not that different, once you strip away all the b.s.
ReplyDeleteI don't have the language you do, but the more I read, the more I realize that my thoughts are the same, I just don't know how to express them.
However, I do wonder who it is you are angry with, and why the need to deceive. You can philosophize away all you want, but when you justify hurting someone (even if it means an "education"), I wonder if your empathy is in tact.
Surely there's a happy medium between a Neitzchean and a Kantian?
oh pish. I came across as extremely critical, which I didn't mean to do.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I observed something interesting. After Angel died, I couldn't bear to hear news of a child being hurt or abused. Learning about the loss of a child, and seeing parents in mourning just tore me up, whereas before I was very detached from those things.
At first I thought it was limited to situations involving babies or children, but it's grown into suffering of all kinds. I guess I was taught empathy through my own experience.
I lose any measure of objectivity in these situations. I guess that part of my brain is more active than the reasoning, sometimes. It even changed my politics, somewhat.
It's much more difficult to be black and white on most issues now.
Please, be critical. Tolerance often is a reflection of an absence of moral standards. And character is the result of imposing moral standards.
ReplyDeleteI suppose the difference lies in whether the great pains one experiences in their life is a tragic accident or someone deliberately F'ing with you. Mine was the "latter", so I gained an understanding and some self-empowerment in allowing myself the ability to reciprocate, even in small measures. In other words, I'm no longer as "universally tolerant" as I once was. Excessive tolerance, I've found, leads to subordination and enslavement by those who do not share the same moral values (ie - in the Kantian sense of using others as "means to ends"). Case in point - "Mikey" of the previous thread.
Perhaps this is what gives me a greater ability to "suspend empathy". Perhaps this is simply a reflection of "maleness".
ReplyDeleteps - I "still" can't stand to hear about children being abused. That trait is also reflected in my 2nd son's choice of career as a social worker aiding NY State child protective services.
ReplyDeleteOne generation of symmetry and proportion from opposites.
ReplyDeletePretty close to 1.618. ;)
ReplyDeleteIn "A Serious Man", the Coens used the Fibonacci sequence while filming their scenes.
ReplyDelete:-)
Does it make the movie any better? ;)
ReplyDelete...in the sense of contributing and not detracting from the story?
ReplyDeleteI suppose the difference lies in whether the great pains one experiences in their life is a tragic accident or someone deliberately F'ing with you.
ReplyDelete-----------
Well, I think that both experiences were traumatic.
Excessive tolerance, I've found, leads to subordination and enslavement by those who do not share the same moral values (ie - in the Kantian sense of using others as "means to ends"). Case in point - "Mikey" of the previous thread.
ReplyDelete------
I can see this, but there's a distinct difference in tolerating abuse from others, and going out of your way to abuse. My point in bringing up my increased sensitivity after she died was that I wanted to comfort those who had been hurt in a similar manner.
It seems like you've gone the opposite route. You seem to want to inflict the same pain that was put upon you. Just out of curiosity, if you know intimately that horror of being f'd with, why does it bring you pleasure to do it to others?
Empowerment?
Might there be a different approach?
just asking. :-)
Perhaps this is what gives me a greater ability to "suspend empathy". Perhaps this is simply a reflection of "maleness".
ReplyDelete---------
I think so. And I love maleness....it's just that mind bullets f'ing hurt.
ps - I "still" can't stand to hear about children being abused. That trait is also reflected in my 2nd son's choice of career as a social worker aiding NY State child protective services.
ReplyDelete--------
Bravo for your son!
I simply cannot imagine the things he sees and hears. O for a tender heart and a strong foundation...
by the way, that dance video you linked to...SO beautiful.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy now. :-)
...in the sense of contributing and not detracting from the story?
ReplyDelete-----------
Eh. I didn't even realize it until I had done some research on the film. The movie was choppy in places and highly symbolic. I still don't (and probably never will) understand everything in it, but the longer their movies marinate, the better.
You seem to want to inflict the same pain that was put upon you. Just out of curiosity, if you know intimately that horror of being f'd with, why does it bring you pleasure to do it to others?
ReplyDeleteBecause those whom I go out of my way to 'f with (like Mikey) are usually abusive and seeking to impose their will upon others, too. Tit for tat is my usual rule of thumb.
Might there be a different approach?
None as effective as the "torpedoes touch" (Plato, "Meno").
ps - I never had an appreciation for dance before my daughter became a dancer. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. ;)
from the Jowett summary of Plato's "Philebus"
ReplyDeleteWe are now able to determine the composition of the perfect life. First, we admit the pure pleasures and the pure sciences; secondly, the impure sciences, but not the impure pleasures. We have next to discover what element of goodness is contained in this mixture. There are three criteria of goodness—beauty, symmetry, truth. These are clearly more akin to reason than to pleasure, and will enable us to fix the places of both of them in the scale of good. First in the scale is measure; the second place is assigned to symmetry; the third, to reason and wisdom; the fourth, to knowledge and true opinion; the fifth, to pure pleasures; and here the Muse says 'Enough.'
There's a certain "symmetry" in tit-for-tat....
It works for me.
ReplyDelete:-)
ReplyDeleteThat's good.