Thursday, September 30, 2010

Sisyphians in the Abyss


"If man wants to progress, he must create new forms of energy of greater and greater densities." --Lazare Carnot

"The number of citizens is proportional to the sum of their useful labor altogether." --Lazare Carnot

123 comments:

  1. I find it rather interesting. I ask myself, how do Sisyphians act when faced with the abyss? And I say, they turn around, again and again. They are really like snakes, slithery - another word for clever, in my dictionary - they are always slipping away from its grasp. They think they can forever make a fool of it. But, in the end, they only make a fool of themselves. Since what lies inside the abyss is perhaps worth knowing most of all.

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  2. The inverse of Plato's Cave? But if we all stayed isolated and alone and trapped within the abyss, who would there be to gather together and enslave all the "other" soon-to-be captives/ prisoners?

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  3. That's the mistake the Sisyphians make, to believe that abyss is a trap ... that once you are trapped in it, there is no escape. Like it was a black hole. So they are constantly trying to circumvent it. But is it really so? Abyss, like a black hole, may be the very source of creation...

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  4. Speleology is a lonely pursuit. And nothing you bring back survives in its' original figure/ form, for the "colour" is always completely drained out of it.

    Jowett Intro to Plato's, "Meno"

    Socrates reminds Meno that this is only an enumeration of the virtues and not a definition of the notion which is common to them all. In a second attempt Meno defines virtue to be 'the power of command.' But to this, again, exceptions are taken. For there must be a virtue of those who obey, as well as of those who command; and the power of command must be justly or not unjustly exercised. Meno is very ready to admit that justice is virtue: 'Would you say virtue or a virtue, for there are other virtues, such as courage, temperance, and the like; just as round is a figure, and black and white are colours, and yet there are other figures and other colours. Let Meno take the examples of figure and colour, and try to define them.' Meno confesses his inability, and after a process of interrogation, in which Socrates explains to him the nature of a 'simile in multis,' Socrates himself defines figure as 'the accompaniment of colour.' But some one may object that he does not know the meaning of the word 'colour;' and if he is a candid friend, and not a mere disputant, Socrates is willing to furnish him with a simpler and more philosophical definition, into which no disputed word is allowed to intrude: 'Figure is the limit of form.' Meno imperiously insists that he must still have a definition of colour. Some raillery follows; and at length Socrates is induced to reply, 'that colour is the effluence of form, sensible, and in due proportion to the sight.' This definition is exactly suited to the taste of Meno, who welcomes the familiar language of Gorgias and Empedocles. Socrates is of opinion that the more abstract or dialectical definition of figure is far better.

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  5. Destruction always precedes creation...

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  6. How does one travel into the abyss and not emerge suffering from Conical Anamorphoses?

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  7. How does one travel into the abyss and not emerge suffering from Conical Anamorphoses?

    Perhaps, it's really a cure than suffering.

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  8. ow where'd I put my top?

    Who wants to wake up, anyway?

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  9. The king who dreams of being a slave, of course!

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  10. A day for saying touche, it seems. :-)

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  11. Is it a Null Set?

    Joe Conservative said...
    The king who dreams of being a slave

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  12. He wants to 'wake up', no doubt.

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  13. Is it a Null Set?

    Would a prince count as an element? More specifically, the frog prince... :-)

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  14. The king is blind. So blind he doesn't realize it. He sees only what he wants to see. And nothing will look right until he admits his poor eyesight.

    But you carry on.

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  15. Perhaps Oedipus needs Antigone to lead him to Colonus?

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  16. I stand by what I said. :-)

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  17. Well that worked out very nicely for you, now didn't it?? LOL!

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  18. No doubt. All hail the King of frogs!

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  19. The king (prince) accepts the tribute. :-)

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  20. Today I suddenly realized that I am afraid of only one thing: What if I did not leave my name behind! It almost came as a surprise.

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  21. ...I mean if I were to die suddenly

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  22. That which is mortal seek it's opposite (generation from opposites).

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  23. Indeed. Immortality is something we all seek (Plato, "Symposium").

    A "name" was one of the five "parts" (the Ren) of the Egyptian soul. W/O one, the "soul" might disappear.

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  24. Indeed. Immortality is something we all seek

    "Instead of reading my books, they're writing books about me," Hemingway says. "That's immortality," Goethe says. "Immortality means eternal trial."

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  25. The Scorpion passes into Libra and back into Virgo...

    Death... judgement... immaculate conception...rebirth

    The far side of the Milky Way... the FAR side of the Nile. ;)

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  26. ...but you're free to connect your own dots anyway you might see fit. ;-)

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  27. My "authorities" (argumentative) roots are showing. ;-)

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  28. Perhaps a digression into a dialectic of "number" and the nature of the "odd" and the "even" should be entered into. ;-)

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  29. Perhaps a digression into a dialectic of "number" and the nature of the "odd" and the "even" should be entered into. ;-)

    So you meant a new treatment and not a new shtick...

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  30. ...but you're free to connect your own dots anyway you might see fit. ;-)

    While you set the 'limits'... :-)

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  31. Plato "Theaetetus"

    SOCRATES: Very good; and now tell me what is the power which discerns, not only in sensible objects, but in all things, universal notions, such as those which are called being and not-being, and those others about which we were just asking—what organs will you assign for the perception of these notions?

    THEAETETUS: You are thinking of being and not being, likeness and unlikeness, sameness and difference, and also of unity and other numbers which are applied to objects of sense; and you mean to ask, through what bodily organ the soul perceives odd and even numbers and other arithmetical conceptions.

    SOCRATES: You follow me excellently, Theaetetus; that is precisely what I am asking.

    THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I cannot answer; my only notion is, that these, unlike objects of sense, have no separate organ, but that the mind, by a power of her own, contemplates the universals in all things.

    SOCRATES: You are a beauty, Theaetetus, and not ugly, as Theodorus was saying; for he who utters the beautiful is himself beautiful and good. And besides being beautiful, you have done me a kindness in releasing me from a very long discussion, if you are clear that the soul views some things by herself and others through the bodily organs. For that was my own opinion, and I wanted you to agree with me.

    THEAETETUS: I am quite clear.

    SOCRATES: And to which class would you refer being or essence; for this, of all our notions, is the most universal?

    THEAETETUS: I should say, to that class which the soul aspires to know of herself.

    SOCRATES: And would you say this also of like and unlike, same and other?

    THEAETETUS: Yes.

    SOCRATES: And would you say the same of the noble and base, and of good and evil?

    THEAETETUS: These I conceive to be notions which are essentially relative, and which the soul also perceives by comparing in herself things past and present with the future.

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  32. Exploring and determining the limits of possibility is what philosophy is all about.

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  33. So tell me what are the limits of philosophy... till I refresh 'Theaetetus'.

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  34. So tell me what are the limits of philosophy

    The "imaginable".

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  35. Numbers are divine circles in time written in experience. Now either divide the circle, or move around it and discuss it from a different perspective.

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  36. The circle sets the limit, but that doesn't mean that their is 'nothing' outside of it.

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  37. What is outside the circle is un-Known and perhaps un_Knowable.

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  38. The "imaginable".

    Perfectamente!!!

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  39. The circle is a perfect figure. Now "square" it as the Egyptians did in the King's chamber (tomb) at the Great Pyramid.

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  40. What is outside the circle is un-Known and perhaps un-Knowable.

    Who cares? It is the hand that inscribes the circle that matters. For each hand inscribes it differently...

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  41. Ooops. Wrong reference. THAT was a doubling of the cube.

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  42. each hand inscribes it differently...

    Yet there is also a "simile in multis".

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  43. So that is how the language works...

    It finds what is common, and what is different. The Sun is a star, but is also distinguished as being the nearest star to Earth.

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  44. ...we are both men, but have our own individual "names" to signify our "uniqueness".

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  45. You wish to preserve your "uniqueness" (name) and thereby garner a piece of "immortality".

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  46. Got to pack. Leaving for a few days. Will see you.

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  47. ...Therefore dots are perhaps more important than 'limits'. I was born ... I would die. And you too. The dots are what make us unique.

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  48. The king who dreams of being a slave, of course!

    ----------------

    You WANT to be enslaved?
    Some might say that you already are.
    It all depends on your willingness to pursue your captor.

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  49. Not exactly. No.
    what do you want
    what do you want
    what do you want

    Your battle is not with the other.
    It's with yourself.

    You don't see what is before you.

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  50. what do you want
    To know the other?
    then listen
    what do you want
    to be known?
    then talk
    what do you want
    to be loved?
    you don't see what is before you.
    what do you want

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  51. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeIjy4KolZ4

    Listen to the whole thing...lol!

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  52. I was referring to YOU!! ;-)
    But yeah, that would be pretty good...

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  53. Where'd I stash my blow-up doll... :-)

    I was listening to Bill Cosby's routine on "Fatherhood" and "Brain-damaged" children. Like the kids, Alanis wants "justice"... while all parents really want is "quiet". ;-)

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  54. quiet is wonderful!!!

    You still didn't answer my question, though...

    or, do you want me to be quiet?

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  55. Perfect freedom results in a form of complete slavery we rename and now call "duty".

    Duty, honour, country... -Gen. Douglas MacArthur

    ...and sometimes, quiet is nice. ;-)

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  56. Kant was almost certainly the "ultimate" liberal.

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  57. How about we pretend that I'm going on a long vacation, so you can have some quiet?
    No anger, just quiet.

    And sadly (?) I am not in Kant's corner at the moment. I truly wish that I were...

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  58. That might be nice. I'm a bit "burnt". Nothing energizes the muse like a fit of boredom. ;-)

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  59. I'm sorry you're burnt.
    I don't contain myself well.
    It's something I need to work on.

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  60. ...Fourth-degree burns occur when heat damage destroys the dermis and muscle is affected. Like third-degree burns, fourth degree burns result in scarring and the loss of hair shafts; skin grafting will be needed and permanent motor damage may occur.
    Fifth-degree burns occur when all the skin and subcutaneous tissues are destroyed, exposing muscle. These burns can be fatal due to breaches of major arteries and veins. These burns also may require amputation due to damage to muscles. If amputation is not needed, skin grafting will be needed, and permanent and prominent scarring with loss of keratin and hair shafts in the area of the burn.
    Sixth-degree burns occur when heat destroys the muscles, charring and exposing the bone. These burns are almost always fatal, and if death does not occur, amputation will be required.
    (Wiki)

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  61. First-degree burns are usually limited to redness (erythema), a white plaque and minor pain at the site of injury. These burns involve only the epidermis. Most sunburns can be included as first-degree burns.
    Second-degree burns manifest as erythema with superficial blistering of the skin, and can involve more or less pain depending on the level of nerve involvement. Second-degree burns involve the superficial (papillary) dermis and may also involve the deep (reticular) dermis layer. Deep dermal burns usually take more than three weeks to heal and should be seen by a surgeon familiar with burn care, as in some cases severe hypertrophic scarring can result. Burns that require more than three weeks to heal are often excised and skin grafted for best result.
    Third-degree burns occur when the epidermis is lost with damage to the subcutaneous tissue. Burn victims will exhibit charring and extreme damage of the epidermis, and sometimes hard eschar will be present. Third-degree burns result in scarring and victims will also exhibit the loss of hair shafts and keratin. These burns may require grafting. These burns are not painful, as all the nerves have been damaged by the burn and are not sending pain signals; however, all third-degree burns are surrounded by first and second-degree burns, which are painful.

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  62. I'm beginning to feel perfectly cremated.

    I suppose I'll soon be requiring a complete resurrection under a new avatar. ;-)

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  63. Proteus... can foretell the future, but, in a mytheme familiar from several cultures, will change his shape to avoid having to; he will answer only to someone who is capable of capturing him.

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  64. ...We have gained nothing by this stay.
    Though one finds Proteus, straight he melts away;
    And if he stops for you, he'll say at last
    Things that confuse you, make you stand aghast.
    But, after all, such counsel do you need;
    Let's try it and pursue our path with speed.


    (Faust. Part 2)

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  65. You'll not fit me to your bed, Procrustes... for as Nietzsche's has said, the truth is a woman. ;-)

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  66. Yes, but I look forward to you fitting me to my bed, Theseus... ;-)

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  67. Zarathustra:

    As yet hath the hour of my final struggle not come to me- or doth it come to me perhaps just now? Verily, with insidious beauty do sea and life gaze upon me round about:

    O afternoon of my life! O happiness before eventide! O haven upon high seas! O peace in uncertainty! How I distrust all of you!

    Verily, distrustful am I of your insidious beauty! Like the lover am I, who distrusteth too sleek smiling.

    As he pusheth the best-beloved before him- tender even in severity, the jealous one-, so do I push this blissful hour before me.

    Away with thee, thou blissful hour! With thee hath there come to me an involuntary bliss! Ready for my severest pain do I here stand:- at the wrong time hast thou come!

    Away with thee, thou blissful hour! Rather harbour there- with my children! Hasten! and bless them before eventide with my happiness!

    There, already approacheth eventide: the sun sinketh. Away- my happiness!-


    Thus spake Zarathustra. And he waited for his misfortune the whole night; but he waited in vain. The night remained clear and calm, and happiness itself came nigher and nigher unto him. Towards morning, however, Zarathustra laughed to his heart, and said mockingly:

    "Happiness runneth after me. That is because I do not run after women.

    Happiness, however, is a woman."

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  68. ...and altogether changeable is she.

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  69. Perhaps you should question my fifty daughters, the Oceanids.

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  70. Pardon me as I transform into a more Greek form... ;-)

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  71. ...and all my daughters don suitable apellations as Nereids. ;-)

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  72. "Happiness runneth after me. That is because I do not run after women.

    Happiness, however, is a woman."


    aka Salmacis

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  73. ...another titanomachy... another novus ordo seclorum

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  74. btw... Cremation is ideally suited for transmogrification, unlike burial.

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  75. May I also allowed to take a Greek form?

    And if looks like presumption, be assured it isn't. It's more a tribute. :-)

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  76. The only difference between this Herakles and the original is that I have no Eurystheus to give me my labors. I must also invent them before I perform them... So, may be, you ought to exhort me to invent on... :-)

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  77. The greatest motion is of the self-moving variety. Do you possess a quantum?

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  78. Or must Zeus (Necessity) prescribe them all for you?

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  79. Careful Herakles, lest Hera raise her veil and shield Nike's form from your sight.

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  80. Shame is sometimes a better tool than exhortations...

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  81. Shame is sometimes a better tool than exhortations...

    Indeed ... A nod's as good as a wink to a blind horse.

    i wonder if blind is the operative word here. :-)

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  82. (J)enuinely blind. Huh, Jen?

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  83. Or must Zeus (Necessity) prescribe them all for you?

    No. If this is another Titanomachy, then Titans shall win it.

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  84. (J)enuinely blind: Blind according to Jen.

    I was afraid she might misunderstood... :-)

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  85. The "Strainers" (titans) reside in your subconscious, Nicrap.

    Three metamorphoses do I prescribe...

    The rule(s) of Uranus/Chronos/ and Zeus.

    Sail on...fair winds and following seas.

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  86. Three metamorphoses do I prescribe...

    The rule(s) of Uranus/Chronos/ and Zeus.


    The fratricide inherent in it would suggest that I have already undergone them. Hence the blindness.

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  87. Excusez moi

    Patricide.

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  88. I may be mis-remembering this, but to kill a titan requires the combined efforts of both a mortal AND a god.

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  89. I remember reading about a predecessor of Ovid who did award the victory to Titans in Titanomachy. Do you have any idea who he was... I can't seem to remember.

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  90. ...although "kill" might be too strong a word. Subdue and condemn/re-strain in Tartarus is perhaps the better analogy...

    In adamantine chains ala "Prometheus Bound". ;)

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  91. btw - Prometheus was a titan once restrained in Tartarus... for "ten thousand years" I believe twas said.

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  92. btw - Prometheus was a titan once restrained in Tartarus... for "ten thousand years" I believe twas said.

    By any chance, would thirty years of earth-time be equal to ten thousand years in Tartarus? :-) I hope so, anyway.

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  93. Foresight, meet afterthought and blindsight.

    Perhaps in geological/Biblical time...;)

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  94. it's ALL relative.

    They are really like snakes, slithery - another word for clever, in my dictionary

    May Athena Parthenos shield and protect you. Meanwhile, I'll follow Nike through the upper galleries of the temple.

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  95. ...supported by nothing but aether/air. ;-)

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  96. For as you once said ... two heads are better than one. :-)

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  97. I'm sorry, but all the colour has now been drained from this conversation. I need some fresh air. Ciao.

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  98. ... two heads are better than one.

    Indeed.

    But where you seem to be in some doubt is as to whether three are better than two.

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  99. Meanwhile, I'd best go prepare for concluding the latest Gigantomachy aka - Postmodernism. ;-)

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