tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post8135659202221253318..comments2023-04-15T08:14:53.058-07:00Comments on Joey Conservative's Corner: Xenophon, "Memorabilia" (Against Paid "Professors" of Virtue aka "Sophists")Joey Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02521728886621816690noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-73746016029417173972010-10-06T05:21:42.264-07:002010-10-06T05:21:42.264-07:00'Corrupter' of souls, in short... ;-)'Corrupter' of souls, in short... ;-)nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-40268727957022730562010-10-06T06:21:45.948-07:002010-10-06T06:21:45.948-07:00Socrates was the worst! But at least Athens wasn&...Socrates was the <i>worst</i>! <br><br>But at least Athens wasn't stupid enough to <i>pay him</i> to do it. ;)Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-11741559708966308422010-10-06T07:02:12.531-07:002010-10-06T07:02:12.531-07:00You think so...? I would say they paid him with th...You think so...? I would say they paid him with their souls ... there may have been, as such, something 'diabolical' about Socrates.nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-49122048711778052262010-10-06T07:28:01.684-07:002010-10-06T07:28:01.684-07:00He was certainly "guilty" of all charges...He was certainly "guilty" of all charges. And yes, the diabolical aspect of him was his absolute dedication to his own 1st principle, "It's better to suffer an injustice than commit one."Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-60039144039229754982010-10-06T08:32:43.459-07:002010-10-06T08:32:43.459-07:00...another titanomachy... another novus ordo seclo...<i>...another titanomachy... another novus ordo seclorum</i><br><br><i>That Socrates had a close relationship to Euripides’ attitude did not escape their contemporaries in ancient times, and the clearest illustration of this happy intuition is that rumour running around Athens that Socrates was in the habit of helping Euripides with his poetry. <b>Both names were linked by the supporters of the “good old days” when it was time to list the present popular leaders whose influence had brought about a situation in which the old sturdy fitness in mind and body manifested at the Battle of Marathon was being increasingly sacrificed for a dubious way of explaining things, in a continuing erosion of the physical and mental powers.</b> This was the tone, half indignation, half contempt, in which Aristophanic comedy habitually talked of those men, to the horror of the newer generations, who, although happy enough to betray Euripides, could not contain their surprise that <b>Socrates appeared in Aristophanes as the first and most important sophist, as the mirror and essence of all sophistic ambitions. </b></i><br><br>(BoT)nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-21876916309487300292010-10-06T08:55:30.601-07:002010-10-06T08:55:30.601-07:00lol! That's where Arisophanes got it wrong. ...lol! That's where Arisophanes got it wrong. Socrates wasn't a "sophist". He was the first "philo-soph". His was an act of love (aka self-love), not money.<br><br>Aristophanes "class instinct" was right... but it misfired a bit as Aristophanes hadn't "thunk it" completely through.<br><br>Socrates wit pierced the veil of the "ruling mystique" and exposed all that was "common" within it.Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-25760382299617915042010-10-06T09:02:20.660-07:002010-10-06T09:02:20.660-07:00I love Socrates' banter with the polemarchs in...I love Socrates' banter with the polemarchs in Plato's "Laches"(on Courage)... especially in the "fighting while flying" analogy...<br><br><i>LACHES: Indeed, Socrates, I see no difficulty in answering; he is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy; there can be no mistake about that. <br><br>SOCRATES: Very good, Laches; and yet I fear that I did not express myself clearly; and therefore you have answered not the question which I intended to ask, but another. <br><br>LACHES: What do you mean, Socrates? <br><br>SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain; you would call a man courageous who remains at his post, and fights with the enemy? <br><br>LACHES: Certainly I should. <br><br>SOCRATES: And so should I; but what would you say of another man, who fights flying, instead of remaining? <br><br>LACHES: How flying? <br><br>SOCRATES: Why, as the Scythians are said to fight, flying as well as pursuing; and as Homer says in praise of the horses of Aeneas, that they knew 'how to pursue, and fly quickly hither and thither'; and he passes an encomium on Aeneas himself, as having a knowledge of fear or flight, and calls him 'an author of fear or flight.' <br><br>LACHES: Yes, Socrates, and there Homer is right: for he was speaking of chariots, as you were speaking of the Scythian cavalry, who have that way of fighting; but the heavy-armed Greek fights, as I say, remaining in his rank. <br><br>SOCRATES: And yet, Laches, you must except the Lacedaemonians at Plataea, who, when they came upon the light shields of the Persians, are said not to have been willing to stand and fight, and to have fled; but when the ranks of the Persians were broken, they turned upon them like cavalry, and won the battle of Plataea. <br><br>LACHES: That is true. <br><br>SOCRATES: That was my meaning when I said that I was to blame in having put my question badly, and that this was the reason of your answering badly. For I meant to ask you not only about the courage of heavy-armed soldiers, but about the courage of cavalry and every other style of soldier; and not only who are courageous in war, but who are courageous in perils by sea, and who in disease, or in poverty, or again in politics, are courageous; and not only who are courageous against pain or fear, but mighty to contend against desires and pleasures, either fixed in their rank or turning upon their enemy. There is this sort of courage—is there not, Laches? <br><br>LACHES: Certainly, Socrates. <br><br>SOCRATES: And all these are courageous, but some have courage in pleasures, and some in pains: some in desires, and some in fears, and some are cowards under the same conditions, as I should imagine. <br><br>LACHES: Very true. </i><br><br>Laches being a general of the "old" school. ;)Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-11716967525981719662010-10-06T09:08:04.966-07:002010-10-06T09:08:04.966-07:00Familiarity breeds contempt... for who will work d...Familiarity breeds contempt... for who will work diligently pursuing something one already possesses?Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-6847440507713330332010-10-06T09:11:23.953-07:002010-10-06T09:11:23.953-07:00Love motivates much better than money...Love motivates much better than money...Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-13089605752138998802010-10-06T09:12:25.812-07:002010-10-06T09:12:25.812-07:00Now, if we could only restore the timocracy. ;)Now, if we could only restore the timocracy. ;)Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-90947784982699985582010-10-06T09:16:51.132-07:002010-10-06T09:16:51.132-07:00Join the hoi agathoi... where all value the same &...Join the hoi <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timocracy" rel="nofollow">agathoi</a>... where all value the same "good" (their own).Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-55957230880629885892010-10-06T09:23:46.974-07:002010-10-06T09:23:46.974-07:00Socrates freedom to tear into all "lesser lig...Socrates freedom to tear into all "lesser lights" made even the idea of timocracy untennable. And so Plato banned the poets, actors, and "musical innovators".Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-52660428641737861182010-10-06T09:25:08.592-07:002010-10-06T09:25:08.592-07:00...Plato's cave became a "happy" one......Plato's cave became a "happy" one.Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-31931956749013221722010-10-06T09:27:26.746-07:002010-10-06T09:27:26.746-07:00...and the nocturnal council eliminated all forms ......and the nocturnal council eliminated all forms of dissent.Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-12250552554712362522010-10-06T09:29:16.868-07:002010-10-06T09:29:16.868-07:00...then the Anti-Mason Party formed... ;)...then the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Masonic_Party" rel="nofollow">Anti-Mason Party</a> formed... ;)Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-22365503899869923722010-10-06T09:30:26.138-07:002010-10-06T09:30:26.138-07:00Si I guess we're stuck w/a democracy (not a Re...Si I guess we're stuck w/a democracy (not a Republic).Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-10228721347946806692010-10-06T09:39:41.307-07:002010-10-06T09:39:41.307-07:00Catch-22. You can never go back... so you just sp...Catch-22. You can never go back... so you just spin and spin in the everlasting vortex.Speedy Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01640242783952822072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-45913767452407419132010-10-06T09:39:41.306-07:002010-10-06T09:39:41.306-07:00...Plato's cave became a "happy" one...<i>...Plato's cave became a "happy" one.</i><br><br>Au contraire. It is Socrates who is a purveyor of happiness: of optimism. <br><br><i>...Is scientific scholarship perhaps only a fear and an excuse in the face of pessimism? A delicate self-defence against—the Truth? And speaking morally, something like cowardice and falsehood? Speaking unmorally, a clever trick? O Socrates, Socrates, was that perhaps your secret? O you secretive ironist, was that perhaps your—irony?—</i><br><br>He is more Sisyphean than Sisyphus himself: The diabolical in him goes back to the days when devil was a snake.nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-91007228592312114292010-10-06T09:39:41.305-07:002010-10-06T09:39:41.305-07:00The quote was from BoT as you must know...The quote was from BoT as you must know...nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-47209740660175136842010-10-06T10:09:45.117-07:002010-10-06T10:09:45.117-07:00Yes, I recognized the passage. All Socrates recog...Yes, I recognized the passage. <br><br>All Socrates recognized was that the cave had an exit. He didn't invent a "better cave". He just made the atmosphere in every cave, stink.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-3160995489565959782010-10-06T10:10:57.357-07:002010-10-06T10:10:57.357-07:00Stink of Cecrops and/or other Chthonic serpents/ d...Stink of Cecrops and/or other Chthonic serpents/ dragon's dens.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-15248741879909118562010-10-06T10:14:21.864-07:002010-10-06T10:14:21.864-07:00Actually, all it boils down to is this: Is knowled...Actually, all it boils down to is this: Is knowledge unlike any other ware? Socrates, by refusing to take any payment for it (in money), seems to imply that it is. One of the ways he created the mystique of knowledge. <br><br>I wonder if he only wanted to pull the veil on our eyes, or also the wool...nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-435412614732058172010-10-06T10:16:06.203-07:002010-10-06T10:16:06.203-07:00cave/outsideIs there any difference for the blind?...cave/outside<br><br>Is there any difference for the blind? Metaphorically blind...nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-71871117485179067712010-10-06T10:18:47.353-07:002010-10-06T10:18:47.353-07:00Socratic optimism has ill-equipped us to deal with...Socratic optimism has ill-equipped us to deal with the world: the abyss.nicrapnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-72592815266778398012010-10-06T10:28:12.377-07:002010-10-06T10:28:12.377-07:00Keeping the water of your soul clear/pure.Keeping the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn5HPWLerDU" rel="nofollow">water</a> of your soul clear/pure.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.com