tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post7191103678229808187..comments2023-04-15T08:14:53.058-07:00Comments on Joey Conservative's Corner: Lotus Flowers on the Banks of ArcheronJoey Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02521728886621816690noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-35941427386631691702010-11-20T11:13:06.040-08:002010-11-20T11:13:06.040-08:00Was Gongyla a deceased and therefore unattainable ...Was Gongyla a deceased and therefore unattainable former lover of Sappho? And are unattainable women (Lesbians) sexy "ideals" and/or objects of what Renaissance men termed a "courtly love" for Greek heroes?Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-54115812110149410012010-11-20T18:00:31.898-08:002010-11-20T18:00:31.898-08:00I don't know the answer to either question. It...I don't know the answer to either question. <br>It must be extremely painful to desire someone THAT unattainable.Jenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09524607431704119975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-28046900799810304632010-11-21T04:50:08.525-08:002010-11-21T04:50:08.525-08:00I suspect that THAT is also part of the point...I suspect that THAT is also part of the point...Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-56653918887590147512010-11-21T04:52:46.592-08:002010-11-21T04:52:46.592-08:00A guard/test of strength of resolve to fortify the...A guard/test of strength of resolve to fortify the will.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-77378016465106597272010-11-21T07:58:06.430-08:002010-11-21T07:58:06.430-08:00Ah. So that is an element of "courtly love&qu...Ah. So that is an element of "courtly love" that I never understood.<br><br>To that I say "Bullshit!"<br><br>I find the entire concept extremely offensive.Jenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09524607431704119975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-86913413893934170612010-11-21T08:59:08.388-08:002010-11-21T08:59:08.388-08:00Then you should also find the concepts of "re...Then you should also find the concepts of "refinement" of attempting to seek "perfection" offensive as well. Just accept who you are, and don't try and become anything "greater" than what you currently are.<br><br>IMO, the whole point of the cult of Aphrodite and Sappho's poetry is to learn how to sublimate sexual desire and thereby achieve immortality. To transfer the love of past sexual and romantic pleasures into a force for overcoming future immediate pains to achieving some future (and yet impossible) goal, immortality... in the form of something that benefits future generations of mankind (which then retains a memory of your name/struggle).Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-7153542109101015702010-11-21T09:02:00.600-08:002010-11-21T09:02:00.600-08:00Sappho's poetry is an exhortation to "dre...Sappho's poetry is an exhortation to "dream"... and use those dreams to change the future.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-81090574224609039512010-11-21T09:03:41.542-08:002010-11-21T09:03:41.542-08:00So enjoy life's pleasure, and employ your memo...So enjoy life's pleasure, and employ your memories of them to bettering the world.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-90304420251124141652010-11-21T09:11:16.307-08:002010-11-21T09:11:16.307-08:00Greatness doesn't come from "abstinence&q...Greatness doesn't come from "abstinence" and/or "asceticism". It comes from having lived a full life. Someone who has loved greatly and lost his/her love can achieve things that one who has not, cannot.<br><br>This is why Nietzsche says things like:<br><br><i>"The highest man would have the greatest multiplicity of drives, in the relatively greatest strength that can be endured. Indeed, where the plant "man" shows himself strongest one finds instincts that conflict powerfully (e.g., in Shakespeare), but are controlled." </i> -WtP 966Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-3753680467170636482010-11-21T09:13:50.181-08:002010-11-21T09:13:50.181-08:00...so Sappho uses her memory of a past love to cre......so Sappho uses her memory of a past love to create poetry that has survived 2,600 intervening years.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-91607629349904594502010-11-21T09:16:34.173-08:002010-11-21T09:16:34.173-08:00...and it's not that she writes about past lov......and it's not that she writes about past lovers that makes her poetry immortal. It's that's she's also sharing/transferring this "technique" for achieving immortality to others.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-63848753490238158212010-11-21T09:18:07.994-08:002010-11-21T09:18:07.994-08:00I understand all of this, and I agree. The aspect ...I understand all of this, and I agree. The aspect that I find offensive is using another to fortify one's will. <br>It's objectification without reciprocation.<br>When one person is used for another's own purposes WITHOUT reciprocity or some giving of self in return, that's basically pornography.Jenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09524607431704119975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-15035445737841638032010-11-21T09:25:20.529-08:002010-11-21T09:25:20.529-08:00No, I think that "courtly love" differs ...No, I think that "courtly love" differs in the need for the practitioner to have a "witness" to one's deeds... whereas the cult of Kypris only requires a self-witness.<br><br>It's like this... if a tree fell in a forest and no one saw it fall, would it make a sound? It's more of a question of "existence" and wanting to "exist" through a witness.<br><br>For some people (the stronger), no witness is required. Or in the case of the Greeks, the "witnesses" had only to be the gods.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-65578967587818963372010-11-21T09:29:22.518-08:002010-11-21T09:29:22.518-08:00And in Nietzsche's case, the "witness&quo...And in Nietzsche's case, the "witness" is a reader 100 years later.<br><br>And in the Overman's case, NO WITNESS AT ALL. Perfect Anonymity.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-32376695399646151212010-11-21T09:34:32.325-08:002010-11-21T09:34:32.325-08:00There used to be a saying about men... that there ...There used to be a saying about men... that there were three kinds who went to the Olympic games. Those who came to compete, those who came to buy/sell, and those who came to watch.<br><br>Now imagine one who comes to compete with no one in the stands watching, not even the gods.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-13271085471367360162010-11-21T09:38:27.252-08:002010-11-21T09:38:27.252-08:00Think of it this way, you can make a donation to a...Think of it this way, you can make a donation to a good cause in order for others to recognize you, or you can do it anonymously. One contribution is self-serving, and the other, pure "grace".Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-46891363668670482882010-11-21T09:42:59.961-08:002010-11-21T09:42:59.961-08:00...even if a little "mental pornography"......even if a little "mental pornography" got you to the point of ability to contribute "gracefully".Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-28230444562637501282010-11-21T09:45:31.661-08:002010-11-21T09:45:31.661-08:00A "generation from opposites."A "generation from opposites."Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-75391624343099872532010-11-21T09:46:36.684-08:002010-11-21T09:46:36.684-08:00A new "whole" that is greater than the s...A new "whole" that is greater than the sum of its' individual parts.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-89415205411130962452010-11-21T09:48:54.339-08:002010-11-21T09:48:54.339-08:00...a "surpassing" of self...If you'v......a "surpassing" of self...<br><br>If you've got a better way, I'd like to hear it.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-22208553982381357792010-11-21T09:48:54.338-08:002010-11-21T09:48:54.338-08:00Modern Christians aren't much different than t...Modern Christians aren't much different than the Greeks in that sense...with God being the only witness. At least, He should be the only witness, most of the time.<br><br><br>Still, there is something very user-y about having this witness, for the sake of having a witness. Where does the witness benefit?<br><br>Perhaps I'm just....more of a reciprocal kind of person. <br><br>When I think of the athelte with nobody in the stands, I can't fathom it. I'm so much weaker than I realize.Jenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09524607431704119975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-88084889372839164452010-11-21T09:52:45.510-08:002010-11-21T09:52:45.510-08:00Many there are who would sacrifice for "futur...Many there are who would sacrifice for "future posterity" or for their descendants. But how many would do so for an ideal of a better mankind but receive complete obscurity for your efforts... like you never even existed?Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-1524363446880084752010-11-21T09:54:37.891-08:002010-11-21T09:54:37.891-08:00Don Quixote w/o Sancho Panza.Don Quixote w/o Sancho Panza.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-45060872427800172752010-11-21T09:57:11.932-08:002010-11-21T09:57:11.932-08:00...w/o Dulcinea....w/o Dulcinea.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1164672274814613038.post-27421729174102167472010-11-21T09:59:09.381-08:002010-11-21T09:59:09.381-08:00...w/o G_d or gods.Like Eos on golden sandals....w/o G_d or gods.<br><br>Like Eos on golden sandals.Joe Conservativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02696367580635901992noreply@blogger.com